The Pac-12 Thread....

First, as to D Thomas, no, he has not been picked up by anyone.  He does have a tryout at Cleveland this week, but stands little to no chance of making an NFL roster.  He needed another year working on throwing mechanics, but decided to forego that effort.  Kelly tried to convince him to stay for his senior year as he didn't think Darron had the prospects that Darron believed he did.  Darron thought the draft was short on QB's this year, so he went out.  Darron was wrong.  Now, CFL, arena, may be his only road to prove himself.  Terrible decision on his part.

Now, as to the playoff nonsense, I can not support any system that relys on people being VOTED on and off the island.  For example, I say, at the end of last year, Oregon, Stanford, OSU, and Wisconsin, all, would have beaten Alabama in the NCG.  Of course, this will never be resolved because they DID NOT PLAY each other.  And, transitive properties and analysis are not applicable to College Football.

The Ducks were not voted into the Rose Bowl, they earned it.  I appreciate how much more difficult that would have been had USC been allowed to compete.  Wisconsin earned the Rose Bowl by winning their conference.  Artificial rankings were not relevent to either teams achievement of making the Rose Bowl, on the field performance, was. 

Briefly, on the subject of last years game between Oregon and USC.  No, it was not a trap game.  Oregon tried to win and got beat.  The idea that the game was close, and lost by a kid missing a field goal to send it to OT, is really Oregon fans in denial of what took place.  Truth is, USC won handily.  Barkley, Woods, and Lee combined for a huge evening.....their best outing of the year, maybe with the exception of the UCLA game.  But for the fumbled exchage by Barkely during his 4th qtr drive, Ducks lose by double digits having not really been in the game since getting blown out in the first half. I was there, I have good seats, and I witnessed the domination in that game.  Period.  The only comfort from that loss was the knowledge that USC could not take the Conference from us or play in the PAC12 Championship as the South Representative.

Back to the playoff thought.....I agree with Trucker that a Plus 1 is less infringing on the Bowl structure than any other model.  But, how do we select which two play for it all after the Bowl Games?  Should we draw from a hat?  Should we have a committee with human bias decide?  Should we let a machine programmed with human bias decide?  Should we just go by market share, profitibility, or black magic?

I would prefer to let the Bowl winners go in to the off season claiming they are the best.......Who cares?  A true number 1 is a fools errand.  It can not be done.  Your Champion will always be by consensus, and never by victory on the battlefield against all comers, as one would expect of a true Champion.

Get rid of the BCS.  Go back to the Bowl stystem.  The millions generated by the BCS is all TV money anyway, cut out the middle man putting on the sham show.

I don't need a dog and pony show to tell me who was the best team at the end of last year.  It was clearly USC, right? 

EverybodyDuck, once again, I am humbled by your articulation of it. LOL.

To play devil's advocate, I will say there is a way and that is to duplicate the Rose Bowl formula with three other bowls. The winners of these bowls have, as you say, "earned it" first by winning their conference and second by defeating the champion of another conference. This, in theory, is an earned formula to a national championship game. You now have your "plus one" game and then the NCG.

It won't kill the complaints from the second place team that is polled higher than a conference winner or of the "weak conferences" but it is earned.

It's also obvious that no matter which it's done or not done, the caterwalling will continue....LOL

trucker and everybody duck,

     Personally, as I've stated before, I am more of an either/or when it comes to a playoff. I want to either go back to the old system or have a playoff. What I don't like is the way the current system has tried to "split the difference" between the two.

     In the old system with the 2 polls, we had some split NC's because the winners were voted on, so there were times where each poll had a different winner. There was a certain amount of fun that came with arguing about who the "real champion" was. There was, however, no arguing over legitimacy of the championship. It was what it was.

     The current system basically takes the old system and then votes 2 teams into the NCG and tries to tell us that it was somehow "earned" on the field and crowned a true champion. Basically, they are giving us a hamburger patty and trying to convince us that it's filet mignon.

     A playoff, to me, is inevitable and it became inevitable the instant that the Bowl Alliance was made and became even moreso when it morphed into the current system. A big part of the reason that I support a playoff is the inevitability of a playoff. It's coming, I couldn't stop it if I tried, so I may as well enjoy it.

TJ12, well said. May as well enjy it...or at least enjoy the inevitable opportunities to use "I told you  so"

Anyone else remember until the "old system" New Year's day was a great day to sit on your a** and watch football. Now it has become the Rose Bowl day and the SEC kicking the sh*t out of B1G day and the who cares bowl (Orange) Under the old system there was more incentive as a fan. I remember the Cougs got screwed in the Rose Bowl by Michigan but I ended up really into the Nebraska game to see if we just lost to the NC's or not. The old system bowls matter, the new system are trying to kill the bowls and has a great job of putting some bowl's on life support while somehow added more? The Rose Bowl is by far the best bowl (even the BCS title game) and it would be a shame to lose the tradition of it because some playoff that will still leave huge question marks as to who the real champion actually should be.

USC just picked up a 4 star WR from Texas. Massington is 6' 3 at around 205. Looks like we are well on our way to a stacked class this next year. 

Fight on!! 

Okay, inevitable you say.  Not soooooo fast my friend.

The Universities and the Alumni are going to have to sign off on the destruction of the Bowl system.  I understand and hear the cries of those fans  not invested in a University beyond merely a love for their sport programs.  Those folks want to chase the impossible dream of certainty in #1 and care little to nothing how it effects the Schools and their core mission. 

The School does care about the Alumni having a good time at the Holiday Bowl and building a following for the athletic department fund.  And, there are those season tickets that are bought with the somewhat watered down expectation that each game means something.  Lose two games, season meaningless without Bowls of some value and you are not going to be selling a lot of concessions and fill those hotel rooms.

The concept that everyone is a loser except someone who gets voted to be the winner is going to be a hard sell moving forward.

Now, I could accept a conference champion only arrangement.  If you can't win your conference, you are not entitled to compete a second time against someone who did.  And, I have no idea how you could fairly seed all the champions or where and how these games would be played.  I would insist that if the last two conference champions standing in this round robin were the PAC and the B1G......That Champion must be determined in the Rose Bowl.

Everybody Duck again, devil's advocate, 10s of millions in added TV revenue can be an effective balm to the sad loss of tradition......

Trucker,

10's of millions lost because your season is gone after two losses can have a severe impact on the Universities and their communities because your Home Game is meaningless.  Made for TV CFB will not survive absent community support which will become tentative at best. 

Now, if that additional TV revenue was going directly into my pocket, I would find the demise of CFB a little more tolerable.

Everybody Duck, actually that's a point many miss, the very existence of the bowl system keeps fan interest high throughout those schools that don't have an opportunity to see post-season action. If the playoff kills the bowl system, the regular season is already "punctured" for 95% of the college teams.

OK, I'm gettin even more rigid on this, Plus one ONLY or dump the BCS....

Can you see a scenario where the Pac and the B1G part company with the rest of the lemmings?

Everybody Duck, why would the bowl system be destroyed? Four teams go into a playoff. The rest of the bowls stay as is.

Wazzu is correct about the flaws in any human equation.  That is why I favor Conference Champions playing Conference Champions in exhibihition Bowls after the season.  Beyond that, those Conference Champions and others can play each other in OOC games to establish their National power and bring quality back to the regular season.  Polls have zero effect on Conference Champions.

Trojan ask how might the Bowls be weakened by a four team playoff?  In order to fully explain my thought on this, I need to broaden the question to how does the BCS, in their quest for a pretend National Champion, weaken the Bowl system. 

We must start by looking at the current status of the BCS and its effect on the old Bowl system.  Currently, the BCS has highjacked three major Bowls for their BCS Championship series.(Sugar, Orange, Fiesta).  The Rose participates, but continues to have preference for the PAC and B1G Champions. And, the BCS has created an additional game which purports to match #1 and #2 whose rankings are determined by a beauty contest.

How has this worked out?  The Sugar, Orange, and Fiesta have trouble selling out a Bowl game that tradionally has demand exceeding supply.  The Rose remains in high demand because they have protected their product.  The NCG made for TV event turned in its worst ratings in its history this year.  I submit the made for TV NCG has diminished the Sugar, Orange, and Fiesta by making them loser consolation Bowls instead of hosting Champions who can argue at the end of their game that they are indeed the best team in the Country.  The fans who used to attend these Bowls believed they were watching the best team in the country instead of the now perceived also ran status that has been conferred upon them.

The exception is the Rose Bowl, and this is only because the Rose Bowl did not go all in with the BCS like the other Big Three.  The Rose Bowl continues to be rewarded for its loyalty to the PAC and B1G Champions.  A killer parade with a 100+ year history and 80 degree weather in January doesn't hurt either.  But, it is always a much anticipated sold out event.  Both the game and the parade.

Now, the BCS, seeing their failing system, and understanding basic economics, understand that if the product they are marketing isn't doing well, then TV isn't going to pay them huge sums of money to televise games with limited interest.  So, rather than ditch their system with generates millions of dollars for their personal enterprise, they want to put lipstick on the pig called the BCS.  Enter, the four team playoff concept.

Remain thoughtful of the fact that the majority of TV CFB fans have never attended a college, have never attended a Bowl game, and have no idea what the Saturday atmosphere is on a campus, or the cumulative effect of all those Saturdays in the Fall leading to a Bowl game.  That is the fan catered to by the BCS and TV interest in their quest for profit in CFB.

The four team playoff does not answer the ultimate question of who is really #1.  Instead, it now skims the four actual, or perceived, or lobbied for, four best teams from the Bowl arena.  They know this will crush the Bowls even more, so they float out the idea of the Big Bowls hosting semi-finals, which no one will attend, because it is on TV, and if you were going to spend money, you would want to save it and go to the overpriced final.

If the Orange, Sugar, and Fiesta have already been diminished, and will continue their decline in the new format, it is certain that the lesser Bowls will continue in their decline.  Let's look at the Alamo and Holiday Bowl.  The Alamo Bowl hosts the #2 team from the PAC, and the Holiday Bowl host the #3 team from the PAC.  Finishing 2 or 3 in the PAC used to be perceived as a good season.  Under the new doctrine of all or nothing to be #1, these teams are simply the first and second loser in the quest for the Holy Grail.  Why spend good money to go see these underachievers match up with other underachievers from the Big 12?  While they may have been in their conference title hunt, they were not in the hunt for the big four, and the big four is the only thing perceived to matter anymore.

Let us consider sustained interest in a team during the regualr season.  Ticket prices have only gone up.  It is Alumni who have the resources to afford season ticket packages, not struggling students.  It is Alumni that fill the local Hotels and spend the big bucks on those fall weekends that make the Home games so profitable for the School and the community. 

Using Oregon for example, consider they are stupid enough in this new format to schedule a competitive OOC game.  They lose, because, like I said it was competitive and not roadkill. (And, as a season ticket holder with 4 seats, I get tired of wasting good money on three roadkills a year).  At any rate, they have one loss OOC, and now they open their season with USC, and they lose that game. Now, with four games into the season the Ducks are 2-2 and are completely eliminated from any chance of making the final four.  While, in the past, I would have attended the remaing games at home and gone to some on the road, I now have no incentive or desire to go to games that have been essentially rendered meaningless in quest of going to a meaningless Bowl where only half the stadium has people and 1/4 of those seats were local giveaways.

Look how empty the stadiums are now at most lesser Bowls, they don't even show crowd shots because there is no crowd.  And, that is for good traveling teams.

The only reason the Fiesta has survived is because they have season ticket holders, same as the Holiday Bowl.  I have season tickets to the Holiday Bowl because I enjoy a few days in San Diego every year, but most do not.

This whole BCS quest diminishes everything but the final game, and the final game is a farse in the actual detemination of who is #1.

The fiscal impact on the communities who are seeing dropping attendance rates can not be overstated.  But, the BCS doesn't care because they are getting their beer and toyota money.  The Universiy Presidents need to step up and appreciate the economic dmages they are going to inflict on themselves and the communities if they allow the current path to continue to be followed.

Maybe the best way to articulate it is like this:  I have 4 season tickets for Oregon, which I have had for a long time.  I have 2 season tickets for the Holiday Bowl, which I have had for a long time.  I see the Ducks in away games no less than twice a year, often more.  I contribute to the Duck Athletic Fund on an annual basis.  If the climate of CFB does not change and continues to produce a watered down season product and watered down post season experience, I will probably drop all of the season tickets, and donations to the DAF.  I will then catch the Ducks on TV, when and if, they ever play in a game deemed significant to watch.  It may not seem like much, but I spend thousands on tickets and travel and merchandise, and I know many Alumni that feel like I do and will do the same thing. 

If CFB is really only going to cater to the Johnnylunchbucket fan, then I will spend my money on something more satisfying.

And, NO, it won't be more Raider season tickets.  I would have long ago gotten rid of those, but I have really, really, good seats.

I did drop my A's season tickets after the last BB strike.  And, I dropped my Warriors season tickets after the doubling of prices after the coliseum remodel.  I wouldn't go piss on either if they were on fire.  So, I do feel strongly about these things and will abandon a game when the value becomes diminished. (the exception being the Raider tickets, but only because of the seat locations).       

 

TJ12, That game between USC and the Ducks was sold out, had massive interest by both schools. "Even more important" than it already was, is a little thin in my books.

Our regular season is maxed re fan interest, not gonna get much higher, at least amongst the teams that are on the top end anyways.

True, but what about interest on a national level? Yes, because it was expected to be a good game, many fans would watch that are not necessarily fans of either school, because they want to see a good game. However, if the game had a playoff berth on the line, it would increase that national interest even more. Would it not? 

Those teams that are on the bubble may be a different story. Still, by that logic, make the playoffs even bigger, then even more fans will be interested in "their" team longer into the season.

With a 4 team playoff, one loss puts a team on the bubble, thus maintaining the interest and increasing the importance of each subsequent game as one more loss or even a "close call" with a team that should be crushed, can burst their bubble.

Eventually, we end up with a March madness where no one cares about the "regular season" at all.

I disagree. I don't think that football lends itself to a huge "March Madness" type of playoff. You can't play football every other day (or even everyday) like you can basketball.

It's a pretty easy fix for football as well. Dan Patrick's suggestion is you make the contract so that it is a 4 team playoff for the next 10 years. That gives 10 years where the playoff cannot be touched. After that 10 year period, if everything is working well, you just renew it, if there are changes ot "tweaks" that need to happen, you make them at that time.

Personally, I couldn't see where football ever expanded beyond 8 teams for a playoff.