Dawg Pound Lounge ,

Super Bowl prediction - rematch of the Harbaugh bowl, this time Baltimore LOSES in excruciating fashion to the 49rs who win their what 6th or 7th?    anyway that's the way I see it...

Bux, first of all, why would you want a high priced 37 year old QB, who is coming off 3 neck surguries?   At last report, he still couldn't even grip the ball effectively,  let alone throw with velocity....Everybody is just going to have to wait and see on Peyton....His career might be over....but there's no reason to kick Cleveland with your emphatic notion that Manning wouldn't come....We would be an instant contender with a healthy Peyton Manning.   And money talks....

We'll find out whats up with Manning on March 1.....I think the Colts owe him big bucks if he's still on the roster.


 

We should not use a 1st round pick on a QB this year, there are still way too many holes fill.  I am a fan that would still like to see the Browns win sooner than later, but drafting another high profile QB and ruining him just like the rest is not the way to go about it in my opinion. 

I bet the Panthers are glad they aren't so pessimistic....The Browns haven't ruined any QB's man.... They haven't had one to ruin!!!

How many games has Brady Quinn played in since he left Cleveland?   I mean look at the guys they have had in here.   Are you telling me you think Tim Couch or Derek Anderson would have been great if they hadn't been ruined by Cleveland??? Give me a break....Couch had never seen a real playbook.  Anderson threw over 50 int's at Oregon State....There's never any guarantees...    They flopped as NFL starting QB's....I'm sure other teams (you know, the one's that know what the hell they are doing) were thrilled when Cleveland took Couch #1 overall....They were jumping for joy when Savage traded everything for Quinn...Everybody knew he wasn't accurate enough.

Just because our late 3rd round project QB can't get it done, doesn't mean we should quit trying.....Without a franchise QB the team has no hope....With "no hope" how do you expect them to win games?  If you really want them to win sooner than later,  you should want them to get a real QB as priority #1.....

They should do what they gotta do to get RG3....

His career might be over....but there's no reason to kick Cleveland

Not kicking Cleveland, just being realistic...

I bet the Panthers are glad they aren't so pessimistic....

I think that every Browns fan should be a little pessimistic at this point.  How many years of this BS should fans of a team that have a massive following have to deal with the failure on the field.  Have they improved? Slightly...We are all optimistic at the beginning of the season only to be let down in one way, shape or form. I understand it was a new coach on a shortened training camp, but good old Fritzy poo pissed down his leg more than once this season.

Just because our late 3rd round project QB can't get it done, doesn't mean we should quit trying

That is part of the problem, how do we know if Colt McCoy can get it done?  Is it because they have surrounded him with so much talent that there is no explanation for failure?  
I won't disagree that a great QB will improve everyone around him. But to gamble on a guy like RGIII (not only to take him at #4, but talking about trading with STL @ #2) is not good business.  TD, you and I among others can argue all day about whether or not he is the guy for the job in Cleveland. But the truth is that there are alot more pieces that will have a greater impact than RGIII.

With "no hope" how do you expect them to win games?

There is always hope, until about halfway through the season when most start to realize that this is the same Browns franchise.



TD, I really enjoy your perspective on almost everything you post.  I love signing on and reading what other Browns fans have to say and gather any other information they might have.  But to attempt to be optimistic 100% of the time is just draining.  

It doesn't seem to matter who the coach is, or even who the management team is.  If something drastic doesn't happen in the next year, this team will be remain where it is when Holmgren leaves in another 2 years.  It will be below average when he came and below average when he leaves, because he WILL bail.

Now you can sit here and say that I am not a true Browns fan because I am "bad mouthing" them.  But I as well as many who have posted on here in the past are fed up with the same crap year in and year out.  "Wait till next year" they all say, well I am waiting and will continue to wait.  I have just run out of patience at this point.  I want the Browns to be a superior franchise because the fans and the city deserve it.  I am sure that you understand that you are not the only passionate Browns fan on this planet.

However, if the Browns do draft RGIII (I certainly hope it is at #4 and they don't trade with the Rams and give up more picks to do it) and he is successful, I will declare you the ultimate master of this domain and I will place that in my signature. You can archive that, mark it down or do whatever.

I certainly hope you don't take my response the wrong way because I truly respect others' opinions and whether you believe it or not and I am a Browns Backer and will be until the day that I die, or until they move the franchise to LA (bad joke).

I wouldn't even watch the Browns if I felt the way you did Bux...It's like you really think that's there is NO way this franchise can turn it around...Thats sad.  I understand it.  I have family members that feel the same way you do.   But it's still sad.....I'm not saying we have to win the SB!  I just want to have a fun season.....It would be nice to play in a December game that meant something other than draft positioning ......If this current Cleveland team had a real QB, the entire "negative" perception of Browns football that is embeded in folks like yourself and throughout the land,  would be history....The Cleveland Browns would be returned to relavancy.....Is that asking too much?   

I'm as tired of the losing as anybnody is Bux...You know that.   It makes me ill....But ya gotta believe that it can change.   If we had an Eli Manning or Ben Roethlisberger, or Aaron Rodgers  we would percieve the entire franchise in a different light...

The Rams were the worst team of the 90's.....Then they found Kurt Warner and finished the decade with a world championship....Do I even have to mention how horrible the New Orleans franchise always was until they got Brees?   Franchises can turn it around my friend...and you know what it takes to do it...

First of all, I have watched every televised game since I can remember with the hope of pulling out a win.  If I can't be at home or the bar to watch, I make sure it is DVR'd.

Despite your perception, I do think they can turn it around.  But it starts by not only making good decisions in the draft but also in free agency as well as coaching hires.  While the drafts have been better the last two years, managment has failed in my opinion to bring in the players that can make a difference.

I would love to see a guy like RG3 come in and tear it up with the pieces we already have in place and make a couple of key additions. And I don't want to sound like the people that say, "Well he can't even take a snap from under center" or "Look at the defenses he went up against in college".  The fact is that he is a smart kid with a heck of an arm, great speed and he can probably learn some of these things.  I am just questioning whether there are other needs that need to be addressed first.

Who knows, maybe we can get lucky on a couple later round picks like every other good team seems to do. 

We can all relax now, the Browns just hired Nolan Cromwell as a special offensive assistant.  All is well, Cromwell, that is...Former Holmgren homey and was the WR coach in St. Louis when Fritz Pat ShUrmUr was there.  

Maybe there is a coach from the Colts that we couldn't get so we settled on one from the Rams.  I know I am being negative again.

 

I think it was Bluez who asked about the college all-star games (just can't remember when & where) but here are the dates in case any of our DPL draft scouts are interested:

Jan 16, 2012 - College football all-star game season is upon us. For NFL Draft types, it means the first chance to pick out prospects, while college fans must count it as the last actual, on-field activity until like two entire months from now. (For everyone, it means we get to see helmets with mixed-and-matched helmet logos arrayed in every direction. That's probably the highlight.)

While the smaller games offer only one or two players the non-fiend has ever heard of (don't come crying to us once you realize you've missed your last chances to enjoy Jacory Harris and Stephen Garcia, dear reader, though G.J. Kinne appears to be attempting to play in just about every game), the East-West fields a roster that should be largely familiar to most fans, and the Senior Bowl is a legit college all-star game. Albeit one without juniors.

The Mobile classic includes Russell Wilson, Kellen Moore, Devon Still, Courtney Upshaw, Quinton Coples, Kendall Wright and Joe Adams already, with full rosters soon to be announced.

The five biggest college all-star games of the next two weeks:

Casino Del Sol College All-Star Game

Jan. 16 at 6 p.m. ET on Fox Sports; Tucson, Arizona

Casino Del Sol game rosters

Coaches: Houston Nutt and Pat Hill

NFLPA Collegiate Bowl

Jan. 21 at 3 p.m. ET; Los Angeles, California

NFLPA Collegiate Bowl rosters

Coaches: Dick Vermeil and Tom Flores

East-West Shrine Game

Jan. 21 at 4 p.m. ET on NFL Network; St. Petersburg, Florida

East-West Shrine Game rosters

Coaches: Bobby Ross and Brad Childress

The Battle of Florida

Jan. 21 at 8 p.m. ET on Fox College Sports; Boca Raton, Florida

Battle of Florida rosters

Coaches: Bobby Bowden and Howard Schnellenberger

Senior Bowl

Jan. 28 at 4 p.m. ET on NFL Network; Mobile, Alabama

Senior Bowl rosters

Coaches: TBA

Fritz Pat ShUrmUr

What's with the capital letters in the last name Jake?

You putting some up-rights in his name so that he can remember what the endzone looks like so he can get the team to head in that direction?  Only problem with that is that there are two sets of up-rights and one of them brings to mind Roy "Wrong-Way" Riegels.  Maybe you can put an arrow or something in there.     

Duff ..thanks for the college bowl update . i wont be watching as its on NFL Network  

only 20 % of the country gets it . they really need to expand the NFL Network to the cable companys .

Greedy clueless &%* Morons

Nolan Cromwell ?  he played safety for the Rams . that figures as i am sure he is a offensive genious

 

they had better hire a proven offensive cordinator to help out the puppet . what makes them think this year will be any different than last year ? he needs help big time . he shouldnt have gotten the HC Job in the first place .



is it Beer Thirty yet

There is evaluation, then there is evaluation. With this Browns team, one needs to look past the obvious, going beyond the inconsistency of the team and look at those players which make up this Browns team. In part-two of our "Breaking Down The Browns", Fred Greetham beats the RB's to the hole.

4 Comments

The Browns just finished another double-digit loss season and questions abound throughout the roster. Are the Browns heading in the right direction? Do the Browns have a core to build around?

The OBR is breaking down the Browns current roster position-by-position. The second in the series is the breakdown of the running backs.

Running Backs (Peyton Hillis, Montario Hardesty, Chris Ogbonnaya, Owen Marecic, Armond Smith, Eddie Williams and Brandon Jackson)

The running back position was viewed as a position of strength of the Browns as the Browns headed into the 2011 season. Fresh off being named to the cover of Madden 2012, Peyton Hillis was expected to provide the lion’s share of the offense. He was coming off a career year where he rushed for 1,177 yards with 11 touchdowns. He also was the team’s second-leading receiver with 61 receptions and two touchdowns.

Then the Madden curse seemed to strike. Hillis sat out the third game of the season with strep throat and things went downhill from there. He pulled a hamstring against the Raiders and missed close to half of the season. He finished strong in two of the final three games, but his season ended far shy of his 2010 season with 587 yards and three touchdowns. He also was far less involved in the passing game with 22 receptions for 130 yards.

Many of those following the Browns think it’s a foregone conclusion that Hillis will leave via free agency this off-season. The Browns and Hillis’ agent broke off talks mid-season, but Hillis said in his final interviews of the season that he wanted to finish his career with the Browns. Pat Shurmur said he and Hillis had ‘a very good conversation’ in their season exit meeting.

The Browns brain trust Mike Holmgren, Tom Heckert and Pat Shurmur refused to address the Hillis situation and sound as though they are willing to let him test free agency. If that happens, it is unlikely Hillis will return as a suitor might come close to what he is seeking in compensation. However, even if he doesn’t get the offer that he’s hoping for, many times a player will take a similar offer with a new team just to save face.

With the uncertainty of Hardesty, it is likely the Browns would like for Hillis to return, but they will not break the bank to sign him. If Hillis truly wants to remain with the Browns, the ball likely will be in his court.

Hardesty is hardly a player that can be depended on to carry the burden after missing most of his two NFL seasons with injury. After missing the 2010 season with an ACL injury, Hardesty was slow in getting his knee into shape heading into the 2011 season. After he finally started to play, he strained his calf, which ended up holding him back for much of the remainder of the season. He finished with 266 yards on 88 carries for a 3.0 average per carry. Hardesty’s longest run of the season was just 19 yards. He caught 14 passes for 122 yards. Hardesty has yet to score an NFL touchdown and has not shown what Tom Heckert saw in the former Tennessee standout enough to trade up in the 2010 draft to select Hardesty in the second round. Heckert even admitted he hasn’t yet seen the player he drafted. He did say in the season wrap up that he is looking forward to seeing a healthy Hardesty play next year. I think all Browns fans are, as well, but with his injury history in college, it’s hard to go into the season counting on Hardesty to be the feature back.

Ogbonnaya is an intriguing story (See Don Delco’s story ‘The Curious Case of Chris Ogbonnaya’). He was signed off the Texans’ practice squad after Hillis and Hardesty went down and literally stepped right into the lineup with only a couple of days practice. He had the Browns biggest rushing game of the season when he rushed for 115 yards against the Jaguars. He had 90 yards against the Rams. Ogbonnaya had the Browns longest runs of the season from scrimmage with a 40-yard burst against Jacksonville and a 28-yard run against the Steelers. After Hillis returned, Ogbonnaya was the third down back, but rarely carried the ball the rest of the season, just four times in the final five games. He finished as the second-leading rusher with 340 yards on 76 carries and a touchdown. His 4.5 average was the highest among the Browns running backs. He also caught 23 passes for 165 yards.

Brandon Jackson was signed as an undrafted free agent from the Packers after starting 13 games for the Super Bowl champions. However, he suffered a turf toe injury in the preseason and spent the season on injured reserve. He was signed to be the third down or change of pace running back. Jackson is expected to return fully healthy for the 2012 season.

Armond Smith made the roster coming out of training camp as an undrafted free agent. He might have been the fastest player on the roster, but when injuries happened to Hillis and Hardesty, the Browns turned to Ogbonnaya, rather than Smith. He carried the ball three times for two yards in his action in the early season. Smith’s biggest claim was when he broke an 80-yard run for a touchdown in the preseason, but he also fumbled the ball away twice in the same game. Smith spent the majority of the season on the Browns’ practice squad.

Owen Marecic was drafted in the fourth round to be the starting fullback. Marecic suffered two concussions during the season and ended up with four carries for eight yards. He also caught five passes for 31 yards. The Browns chose to let Lawrence Vickers leave via free agency and drafted Marecic. Vickers led the way for Arian Foster in Houston and the Browns missed his lead blocking greatly. Marecic should improve his blocking, but he has a way to go. It is concerning that he has already had two concussions in his rookie season.

Eddie Williams was on the practice squad as the backup fullback and was activated after Marecic went down with a concussion and Alex Smith went to injured reserve.

Bottom Line: The Browns should re-sign Hillis to give them stability at the position. If Hillis leaves via free agency, the team must sign a number one free agent to replace him such as Matt Forte or Michael Bush. Otherwise, running back would be a high priority for the Browns in the draft as Hardesty and Jackson cannot be counted on to be the feature back. They could use one of their top three picks on a back if they don’t re-sign Hillis or another back. Ogbonnaya showed enough promise in his limited action to be in the mix.

(Next: A look at the wide receiving corps)

Jake i have looked everywhere for the Cromwell hiring and cant find it . do you have a link ?

Jake i have looked everywhere for the Cromwell hiring and cant find it . do you have a link ?

Here you go bluez.


He was just hired as an offensive senior assistant though. Not even a position coach...this hire is irrelevant.

I have heard rumors of Mike Sherman and Brad Childress being possible candidates for the OC job.  Who do you guys think should be brought in?

I have heard rumors of Mike Sherman and Brad Childress being possible candidates for the OC job.  Who do you guys think should be brought in?

Heck, bring em both in.  Both have head coaching experience and have called plays before and are well versed in "the system".  Personally I would prefer Mike Sherman as he seems a little more "stable" as compared to "Chilly"...

But these guys are the kind of guys we need, one with enough gravitas for Fritz Pat to turn over the play calling.   Even Sean Payton in NO has turned over the play calling, but it took a broken leg for him to do that.  Let's hope it doesn't take a personal event for ShUrmUr to let go of the play calling.  

I wouldn't mind Childress, but I would really like to see them interview Tom Clements from the Packers...I don't think they will htough, because I don't think he has an agent named Bob Lamonte...



Childress DOES though, so I think that is still a possibility. Not sure about Sherman's...

I Guess we are the Cleveland Lamonte now .

Thanks for the update on the Cromwell hiring . that will get us over the hump

I Guess we are the Cleveland Lamonte now .

The Full Lamonte?  


(dodges tomatos thrown by the crowd)

In his previous life as a teacher at Santa Teresa High in San Jose, Bob LaMonte took a special interest in diplomatic history. Fascinated by how leaders obtain and retain power, he would always include readings of Machiavelli on his syllabus. In the late 1970s he and a colleague, Mike Holmgren, would meet for lunch, and when LaMonte wasn't holding forth on the principles of empire building, the two men, who were also assistant football coaches, discussed blocking schemes. One afternoon Holmgren arrived looking anguished. "I have the chance to be a coordinator atSan Francisco State," he said. "Should I take it?" LaMonte replied, "Go for it." Then he posed a question of his own to Holmgren. A former student was preparing for the NFL draft and had asked LaMonte to represent him. Should he try to be an agent? "Bob," Holmgren said, "I think you'd be great."

A quarter century later Holmgren is coach and executive vice president of football operations for the Seattle Seahawks, after having won Super Bowl XXXI as coach of the Green Bay Packers. As for LaMonte, he has carved out a princely niche: agent to young coaches on the make. His clients include Holmgren, Jon Gruden of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Andy Reid of the Philadelphia Eagles, John Fox of the Carolina Panthers, Mike Sherman of thePackers and Jim Mora Jr. of the Atlanta Falcons as well as 12 coordinators and four general managers. "I consider Bob to be a very important power player but also a very productive one," says Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie. "In virtually every situation he's working with the team on behalf of his client, not against it. That gives a whole different meaning to the term power broker."

In six of the past seven years at least one of LaMonte's charges has been promoted to his first head job in the pros. After a client is granted an interview, LaMonte puts him through a vigorous preparation process, arming him with a thick three-ringed binder that covers topics from media relations to financial planning to ownership. "The key letters aren't X and 0, they're CEO," says LaMonte, 59. "[Ownership] knows you know football, so why waste time with that? You have two to five hours to show them you can run an organization." Time and again, LaMonte's clients—Reid, Sherman and Fox, to name three—have started the job search as little-known candidates and then won over management during interviews. "I tried to develop a picture of the entire team and the entire operation," recalls Reid, who has more wins than any other coach since the start of the 2000 season.

Once his clients are hired, LaMonte works to expand their spheres of influence. In 2001 LaMonte negotiated a deal in which Reid took over as the Eagles' executive VP of football operations, joining Holmgren and Sherman as LaMonte coaching clients who also have control over personnel decisions. LaMonte insists that in a perfect world, coaches and general managers can coexist—"What Mike [ Holmgren] and Ron Wolf had in Green Bay was ideal," he says—but he won't apologize for helping his coaches amass power. "If you're driving the race car at 220 mph, you want to know who's changing the oil," he says. "In the NFL, having no control is death."

If LaMonte's tactics don't fit the agent profession's blustery stereotype, neither does his lifestyle. His unassuming offices are in Reno, and the company's only other full-time employee is his wife, Lynn. Reflexively self-effacing, he rarely gives interviews and scoffs at the suggestion that he is a major player in the NFL. "We're putting a pretty dress on a pretty girl," he says. "But if she gets to be prom queen—if our guys become successful NFL head coaches—we've done our jobs."

Still, much easier to understand thanks to the work of Bob LaMonte, our 2011 Cleveland Browns MVP.

—————

*ESPN’s Chris Mortensen reported last week that LaMonte client Brad Childress is among the candidates to become the new Browns offensive coordinator, butothers believe that Childress is unlikely to land here because he’s going to be paid another $9 million over the next two years by the Vikings, who fired him during the 2010 season just after giving him a lucrative three-year extension at the end of ’09 when there were no other conceivable bidders for his services.

**Thanks to @SeaninColumbus for helping to put this post together.

The Full Lamonte client list...

Dominik, Mark – General Manager, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
*Polian, Chris – Former General Manager and Vice President, Indianapolis Colts
Roseman, Howie – General Manager, Philadelphia Eagles
Smith, Rick – General Manager, Houston Texans
Spielman, Rick – General Manager, Minnesota Vikings
Dawson, Lake – Vice President of Football Operations, Tennessee Titans
Keim, Steve – Director of Player Personnel, Arizona Cardinals
*Mueller, Randy – Senior Executive, San Diego Chargers
Telesco, Tom – Director of Player Personnel, Indianapolis Colts
*Childress, Brad – Former Head Coach, Minnesota Vikings
DeRuyter, Tim – Head Coach, Fresno State Bulldogs
Fox, John – Head Coach, Denver Broncos
*Frazier, Leslie – Head Coach, Minnesota Vikings
Reid, Andy – Head Coach, Philadelphia Eagles
*Sherman, Mike – Former Head Coach, Texas A&M Aggies
*Spagnuolo, Steve – Former Head Coach, St. Louis Rams
*Weis, Charlie – Head Coach, Kansas Jayhawks
Christensen, Clyde – Offensive Coordinator, Indianapolis Colts
Cunningham, Gunther – DC/Assistant Head Coach, Detroit Lions
Gray, Jerry – Defensive Coordinator, Tennessee Titans
*Gruden, Jay – Offensive Coordinator, Cincinnati Bengals
*Martz, Mike – Former Offensive Coordinator, Chicago Bears
McCoy, Mike – Offensive Coordinator, Denver Broncos
McDermott, Sean – Defensive Coordinator, Carolina Panthers
Mornhinweg, Marty – Offensive Coordinator, Philadelphia Eagles
*Nolan, Mike – Defensive Coordinator, Miami Dolphins
Saunders, Al – Offensive Coordinator, Oakland Raiders
*Schottenheimer, Brian – Offensive Coordinator, New York Jets
Houck, Hudson – Offensive Line Coach, Dallas Cowboys
McAdoo, Ben – Tight Ends Coach, Green Bay Packers
McNulty, John – Wide Receivers Coach, Arizona Cardinals
Morris, Pat – Former Offensive Line Coach, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Roberts, Daron – Wide Receivers Coach, West Virginia Mountaineers
*Singletary, Mike – Assistant Head Coach, LB Coach, Minnesota Vikings

I wouldn't mind Childress, but I would really like to see them interview Tom Clements from the Packers...I don't think they will htough, because I don't think he has an agent named Bob Lamonte...

Is it me or does anyone else find the Browns timing impeccably bad?  Did anyone else hear the story about the New Orleans offensive coordinator being on the market for a head coaching duty?   And someone else mentioned Marty Morningweg of the Eagles coaching staff doing the rounds.  Would somebody please find that voodoo doll wherever it is and burn it.  I swear somebody somewhere must have put a hex on this franchise.  Pat Shurmur, really??  I would have easily taken Eric Mangini for one more year if it would have even been hinted these guys would have been available.  And that is saying a lot considering I liked almost nothing about Mangini's coaching.

About the Browns...

1. When coaches and top executives look at the 2011 season, they hate the 4-12 record. But they believe they are poised for significant improvement in 2012. It obviously begins with having three picks in first two rounds: the fourth, 22nd and 37th. There also is free agency, where they plan to be more active than in 2011 -- but not wild spenders.

2. According to their thinking, a key component is young players. They have rookies and those in their second year who received major experience in 2012. Here are the key rookies and their percentage of total snaps taken: Phil Taylor (68 percent), Jabaal Sheard (89 percent), Greg Little (91 percent), Jason Pinkston (100 percent) and Owen Marecic (27 percent). Of those picked in the top rounds, only fourth-rounder Jordan Cameron (58 out of 1,087 possible snaps) received little experience.

3. The Browns do intend to address the offensive line, starting at right tackle. But they also believe Pinkston and fellow guard Shawn Lauvao (95 percent) showed definite improvement. Assuming Eric Steinbach returns healthy at left guard, they will have some depth on the line, assuming they find a real right tackle.

4. For all agony over Little's 12 drops, he played 91 percent of the snaps and led the team with 61 receptions. There were no other receivers to take any attention away from the rookie. The Browns want to add a speed receiver. If they do, Little should be position for a strong second season.

5. Rookies Sheard and Taylor joined Ahtyba Rubin to give the Browns three legitimate starters on the defensive line. The Browns don't say it, but Jayme Mitchell fumbled his chance. They are looking for a defensive end to replace him.

6. Entering the season, the Browns didn't know if Kaluka Maiava was anything more than a valuable special team player. They now believe he can start at outside linebacker. He started six games in 2011, his third NFL season. He played only two games in 2010 because of knee surgery.

7. They were pleased with rookies Buster Skrine (137th pick) and Eric Hagg (248th pick), who both played quite a bit in the final two games. They are not sure if either will be starters, but both can help on special teams and as secondary depth. Hagg played 40 percent of the snaps at safety in the final six games.

8. They have T.J. Ward, Joe Haden and Colt McCoy coming back from the 2009 draft -- all with plenty of experience. Even if the Browns do acquire a quarterback, they have McCoy with 20 NFL starts in reserve.

9. Running back is a question with Montario Hardesty and Brandon Jackson coming off injuries. Chris Ogbonnaya is viewed as a solid reserve. Peyton Hillis is a free agent, but the Browns won't pay big to bring him back. This could be addressed with one of the top three draft picks.

10. There are questions at tight end where Ben Watson had three concussions. Evan Moore is really a slot receiver at tight end. Cameron had a few nice moments in the final two games, but played very little. Alex Smith is a backup.

11. This not about making 4-12 sound good, or claiming the team has filled most of its holes. But I thought fans should know how the Browns view 2011 as they plan their next moves. from Terry Pluto...

The Browns are the Cleveland Browns and the Ravens are just another team in the NFL -- to a point that is. To be clear, that team known as the Ravens are their own entity and not the old Browns -- not any longer.

13 Comments

I am all for holding sports grudges.

I will never again drink Vitamin Water or Sprite because LeBron James is an endorser. I’m sure Mesa, Ariz. is a lovely place to visit, but I will never go there because Jose can’t get two more outs. Finally, John Elway, this is your weekly reminder: You ruined my childhood.

Grudges don’t get much bigger than the one Browns’ fans hold toward Art Modell. He’s the man who fired Paul Brown. He forced Jim Brown to retire in his prim. His actions are the reasons why the Baltimore Ravens exist.

This Sunday, the Ravens play at New England in the AFC Championship game. For the Cleveland Browns fans who remember November 1995 that Ravens logo serves as a reminder of how it came into existence.

The end result is a grudge against Modell that the ultimate sports grudge. While I’m not advocating you to drop that grudge, it is time to stop referring to the Ravens as the “Old Browns.”

A page needs to be turned. The Cleveland Browns are the Cleveland Browns, just as the Baltimore Ravens are the Baltimore Ravens.

***

Garrett Downing is from Columbus, Ohio and recently worked as a new media producer at Cleveland’s WEWS-TV Channel 5. Last October, he left WEWS to take a job writing for the Baltimore Ravens’ web site.

Downing was two days shy of 8 years old when Modell announced the move. He was a little too young to completely understand what it meant for the Browns to leave Cleveland, but his parents are Browns fans and after college he covered the Browns and now the Ravens. He seemed like a good place to start.

“I realized when I started here that the attitude of the Ravens being the ‘Old Browns’ is very much a one-sided mentality,” Downing said. “The fans in this area don’t think about it in those terms.“

It is hard to deny the desire for the correlation. At Super Bowl XXXV, there was the image of Art Modell holding the Vince Lombardi trophy. The pain of the move to Baltimore was only five years old and still very real to Browns fans. It is still hard for most Browns fans to digest. The popular sentiment on the days after Super Bowl XXXV was, “That should have been the Browns.”

And so began the idea of the “Old Browns.”

There is no certainty if Modell never moved the Browns, they would have had the same success as the Ravens.

First, let’s go back to 1994. The Browns finished 11-5 in the fourth season under Bill Belichick and lost in the divisional round to the Steelers. The next season, the Browns began 3-1 before the rumors of the move and the subsequent announcement derailed the team to a 5-11 finish.

The following April, the Ravens used their first two picks — fourth and 26th — to select left tackle Jonathan Ogden and linebacker Ray Lewis, respectively.

Consider the Browns were off to a fast start in 1995 and coming off an 11-win season. If there was no announcement, the Browns’ winning ways likely would have continued.

Therefore is no guarantee they would have had such high picks and be in position to draft Ogden or Lewis.

Second, Belichick was fired at the end of the 1995 season. The Ravens decided to go in a different direction and hire Ted Marchibroda, who went 16-31-1 in three seasons. Marchibroda’s firing led to the Ravens hiring Brian Billick, who led the team to the Super Bowl. If the Browns did not move, Belichick was showing steady progress.

Why would the Browns have fired him after 1995?

Finally, as the years go on, the correlation between the two franchises will die down. For example, how many times have you heard an elder football fan refer to the Indianapolis Colts as the Baltimore Colts or the Cardinals as being from St. Louis, not Arizona? But the same type of fan who was born in the late 70s or early 80s never makes that mistake.

Regardless of city, the Colts and Cardinals share the same uniforms and history.

That is not the case in Cleveland.

***

You must not forget how big of a deal it was for the NFL to grant Cleveland the rights to the team’s history and colors. There are plenty of teams in pro sports that have moved before and after the Browns. Never once did the city losing the team retain the team’s history and/or colors.

It only happened in Cleveland.

The team that has had losing season after losing season since 1999 are the Browns, for better or worse.

“To some extent, I understand (the “Old Browns” mentality),” Downing said.

“The franchise left Cleveland and became the Ravens, and has gone on to have tremendous success. They’ve won a Super Bowl and are contenders for the playoffs just about every season. Too many Browns fans, there’s a sentiment of, ‘that should be us.’

“But then there’s also the reality, which is that none of the current players on the Ravens were even on the roster when they moved from Cleveland back in 1996. Art Modell doesn’t own the team anymore. There is some carryover (mostly in the scouting department) between the “Old Browns” and the Ravens, and their histories will always be intertwined, but the Ravens have very much become their own franchise independent of the Cleveland Browns.”

That last part is key. The Ravens are a franchise independent of the Browns. Joe Flacco didn’t break any of Bernie Kosar’s rookie records. Ray Lewis isn’t compared to Clay Matthews. Jamal Lewis didn’t break any of Jim Brown’s team records.

I’ll toast to that any day with an ice-cold glass of anything but Vitamin Water or Sprite.

A page needs to be turned. The Cleveland Browns are the Cleveland Browns, just as the Baltimore Ravens are the Baltimore Ravens.

Simply put .


Goooo Pats


ROT IN HELL ART

I would have easily taken Eric Mangini for one more year if it would have even been hinted these guys would have been available.  And that is saying a lot considering I liked almost nothing about Mangini's coaching.

I Must be the only guy on here who appreciated Mangini the coach .

Mangini the GM

the article about the Rats is generating quite the conversation on the OBR .